Disbelief over museum response

Tauranga museum collection custodian Dean Flavell with some potential exhibits. File photo.

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Museum consultant Neil Anderson was forced to defend his data recently when city councillors said they didn’t believe his report on how much Tauranga people want a museum.

His report, based on community consultation over a six month period, finds there is overwhelming support for development of a museum and the role it will have in the central city.

The ability to tell our stories, provide a sense of belonging and better connect the community are seen as important values by museum supporters.

The type of experience people expect to see reflects modern day museums where they are highly interactive and dynamic, says Neil. Te Papa in Wellington and Puke Ariki in New Plymouth are often referenced as examples of what people expect to see in a museum in Tauranga.

The community also wants city leaders to take real, committed action and actively champion the planning for the central city amenities - and to do it once and do it right.

Transformation committee member Max Mason says the vision statement is ‘underwhelming’.

Neil agrees the language is conservative, but he sees it as a challenge from the community.

“And particularly around the idea that a future new museum becomes the preferred leisure centre for the city and the preferred centre for informal learning,” says Neil.

“It may sound a bit flat, but the expectation behind it is really high.”

Gail McIntosh believes saying a museum will be a preferred leisure centre is presumptuous, and the museum couldn’t handle the traffic from people visiting 12 times a year.

“We all have different forms of leisure and I feel sad for people if this is going to be their preferred centre for leisure, I really do,” says Gail.

“Some people like sport, some like this, some like that, whatever. But the preferred centre for leisure – I just find that presumptuous.”

It is actually what the community came forward with, says Neil.

“What is different about this research study that I have found to other parts of the country, Australia, and England - amongst all of these people - is the scale of expectation they have and the desire of what they want is very high.

“It’s not that other communities don’t have expectations, but the scale of that is coming through in the consultation, in the focus groups, and the co-design. I think it’s partly because it is informed by the time we are in and the travel of Tauranga people around the country and overseas.

“I shouldn’t try and communicate to you that this means people prefer it to weekend sport. What people are saying to us in the research is, ‘we really do expect to use this place a great deal if we live here’, and that would mean using it at least monthly for many people.”

The city council is expected to adopt the strategic case for the museum and the new library next week. While the library is going on the city block, the museum still has the Cliff Road site option to be considered.

“As we investigate Cliff Road we are going to come to a number of forks in the road,” says committee chair Larry Baldock.

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Oh by the way John

Posted on 21-08-2017 18:42 | By Papamoaner

I forgot to say that I too am VERY keen on a NEW poll, as I have said SEVERAL times in my posts on here. I don’t particularly care whether it’s binding or not. We elect councillors to make decisions, so a referendum on this, or other referenda, would normally only be measurement tools to assist them. But if we do have a poll, it should be a citizens poll, not exclusively ratepayers. BRING IT ON.

@John Robson

Posted on 21-08-2017 18:34 | By Papamoaner

I have never deliberately misled. Those figures were quoted by others too. Do your own research instead of attempting to goad me into doing yours for you. Regarding my post on the 15th, you allege I am confused but decline to elaborate. I stand by it until proven wrong. You infer that I propagate bullshit. vide your use of "BS" If that’s what you mean, say so up front. Sleight of hand is of no interest to me. If you can’t be more direct and frank, don’t waste my time.

Calling BS on Papamoaner III

Posted on 21-08-2017 16:56 | By john robson

Apparently I misjudged you. Your refusal to share the 2006 museum poll results suggests your misleading posts are deliberate. No matter. The headline: 49.6% wanted a museum built, 30.8% didnt, with 19.6% undecided. Re running costs: 56.8% werent willing to pay $55 p.a., with 47.5% of the 56.8% saying paying nothing was reasonable. Re construction costs: 81.2% agreed 50% should come from sources other than rates, while 39.7% of those disagreeing said nothing should come from rates. In summary, eleven years ago, half wanted a museum but less than half were willing to pay the estimated costs. I’d like a new poll. I’d also like a museum. But I would not try to win my argument with half-truths and condescension. One last point re your post of 20:47, 15 August... I think you are confused.

Muledrip heads for the hills again, flying his colours.

Posted on 21-08-2017 16:43 | By Papamoaner

He’s gone with a hiss and a roar. "The emperor has no clothes" I rest my case. Well, that’s enough on museums for now anyway. We’ve all pretty much all done our dash.


Posted on 21-08-2017 16:06 | By maildrop

So as well approaching children in the street to ask them to look at your 3D printer, you like to frequent "chat rooms"?! Is there anything you’d like to get off your chest?

Funny alright!

Posted on 19-08-2017 19:06 | By Papamoaner

In his last post entitled "Funny" Muledrip accuses me yet again of fake character and fake stories. Last time he did that, I challenged him to join me in a real-time chat room of his choice so we can debate issues independent of being able to consult google or literature. The real time scenario forces us both to ad-lib. And of course, all observers are invited via prior advertisement on these threads. Alas, he does a runner whenever I suggest it.

@ CC8 museum exhibit....

Posted on 17-08-2017 17:16 | By MISS ADVENTURE

YES he is a, but for now I would accept that he is added to the "collection" ... words used realistically to great excess here. Please dont mention that morse code was WW2 stuff and is redundant, like libraries and excess Council Staff - most.

extinguished the spirit

Posted on 17-08-2017 17:13 | By MISS ADVENTURE

There wasnt any, at least nothing in reality, in the dream-world and fair land maybe all looks good with a pair of rose tinted glasses handy for you to use. That sadly about sums it it. TePapa perhaps as good as it can be, perhaps as well run as it can be still looses over 50% annually. In fact one could easily argue that the larger it si the larger the loss. But then that is not predictable. The fact of there being a loss will be 100% certain, the only question left then is how much? Whose paying? master Pappa and mister bell have avoided that feverishly, wonder why?

He BELONGS in a museum

Posted on 16-08-2017 21:20 | By CC8

Papamoaner tells us he can do 30wpm in Morse code... YES he is a museum exhibit....but not interactive because a sender needs a receiver who can decipher, yet no one else is still alive who holds Morse code as any use to anybody. Then again Mr moaner knows everything about everything, he knows the cure for every problem, and has personal experiences and friends in high places in every field and for every story on Sunlive...or perhaps???? Maybe he can’t help himself. he does seem to have a bunch of like minded friends here in the comments section of Sunlive. It has become very boring .


Posted on 16-08-2017 13:02 | By maildrop

You are an interesting case. The way you come back a day after begging me to stop, to take it on again. It’s a remarkable reboot of the mind. Unfortunately, you seem to forget everything is there for us all to enjoy. I know you like psych evaluations so I wonder what makes you so insecure. The constant need to impress with fantastical "anecdotes". Asking RBell to hold your hand as you go in to bat. Trying to act intellectual but resorting to personal attacks when under pressure. I’m thinking a lonely childhood. Only child perhaps, but more likely rejected by a stern father. Not up to scratch and told so left you feeling inadequate. The result is the overcompensating we see here time and again, with the fake character and stories. Fascinating. Of course, the bites are very real.

Best yet

Posted on 16-08-2017 12:51 | By maildrop

Good of you to introduce the multi lingual Mrs Moaner. I’m surprised it’s only 4 languages. Let me guess, does she sit in the corner of the boudoir staring blankly at the wall? Doesn’t say a lot but has a permanent smile on her face? Squeaks when you pick her up?

@John Robson - Sorry, I'm on and on again old chap

Posted on 15-08-2017 20:47 | By Papamoaner

You guessed it - TePapa - cogent example;- TePapa tour guide and Ex TV presenter Roger Gascoigne, today reported the Gallipoli display has now attracted 1.5 million visitors. According to my rough estimate that’s more than 2000 visitors per day on a 7 day week basis. The balance sheet for the next financial year beckons. It’ll be interesting to see if last year’s 50% gov’t revenue gap is closing. I acknowledge your complaint that I go on and on about TePapa John, but how could I or should I not, when it’s a support contributor to other museums (Like Tauranga) under the Museums act 2002. That 2002 date and exact title wording is from memory, so if there are minor errors, you should not attempt to extinguish the spirit of it on a petty technicality.

@Maildrop & the ugliness of malice

Posted on 15-08-2017 19:52 | By Papamoaner

God knows what travesty you suffered at a young age to make you say stuff like that, but I can see why my wife always refers to you as Hannibal Lecter after your posts. She’s the only one who runs rings around me mate, but then again she’s pretty smart and speaks 4 languages. I only do one, but I always remind her that I can do 30WPM at Morse code and she can’t, haha.Get help mate - seriously! Before you hurt someone. Something is not right here.

Teh age of

Posted on 15-08-2017 17:42 | By MISS ADVENTURE

The reference woudl be "figuritively speaking", referring toteh effective age not the actual age. The maildrop reference to offering incream for a year about sums it up. None of the right mental age would turn it down, none would consider who is paying (someone is) nor would a moment of thought be gioven to how or who or the effect upon others. The comparison was indeed accurate, very accurate and some to the present debate. Think of it as also like a kid with a hand in the lolly jar, not going to stop until empty.

@ Pappa - children?

Posted on 15-08-2017 17:38 | By MISS ADVENTURE

Maildrop isnt confused, You are confusing ’desperation with enthusiasm’ with blindly ignoring the truth of it. Think of it as a myth or legend as being a lovely story with lots of interesting stuff and often remembered feverishly and with lots of enjoyment to many. However never let your feet get off the ground to ever think that a word of it is true or ever will be. The line you are purporting as something real is like saying that "Starship Troopers" is a true-life event.

A bit hard

Posted on 15-08-2017 16:34 | By Minib

I wish writers would leave Gail Macintosh alone she is only offering an opinion just like all other contributors on this site, telling her to go is a bit harsh,what makes your throughts better than her’s.?


Posted on 15-08-2017 12:50 | By maildrop

I’m glad you clarified their age. Did you ask for a birth certificate? I’d be a bit careful if I was your age, assuming people in their late teens are all adults as far as your concerned. It’s a little Rolf Harris/Jimmy Saville if you don’t mind me saying. Hey, I thought your new strategy was ignoring me? It didn’t even last a day! Or maybe it’s the new new strategy. Looks a lot like the old strategy, you know, the one where I run rings around you and irritate you until you break down.


Posted on 15-08-2017 12:03 | By Papamoaner

I don’t think you can ever expect ratepayers to get off Scott Free, but you might be interested to know that under the museum of TePapa Act, one of TePapa’s functions is to support other museums from vote TePapa. This money comes from central government. I am not an expert in this financial field, but I am aware of it.


Posted on 15-08-2017 11:41 | By Papamoaner

Good to see you’re off the smoke today old chap. Was actually readable. I wish I WAS on a payroll.

Neil says ...

Posted on 15-08-2017 11:31 | By MISS ADVENTURE

"desire of what they want is very high", that means the bill for it will be VERY VERY high and that costs to operate the same. Perhaps my cost review is to low, the aim here is to go to all lenghts possible, at any cost to have tried any and all schemes to get anything/everything possible to have the most do-da place around. Anyone woudl think it was the German built WW2 western "sea-wall" defenses, no expense spared. But interestingly despite years of planning and unlimited resources it failed at the first attempt to breach it. Like this scam/scheme of how wonderful it all is to be and how great/sucessful the reality will soon kick in and the bill, losses and debt will appear from day one and never leave. "LIKE" and "WANT" dont pay the bills, the minimal superficial benefits will rapidly pass to rampant debt.


Posted on 15-08-2017 11:27 | By Papamoaner

You confuse desperation with enthusiasm. No, there were no children. That’s being silly if you don’t mind me saying so. People in their late teens are adults as far as I am concerned, and some of them have remarkable vision which is why I am always friendly towards grafitti taggers when I see them. They have Talent. We just need to learn how to harness it and give them some direction in life. They are disillusioned by the attitudes around them. Mean materialists with two cars and a boat not wanting their rates used to generate community wellbeing apart from sewers to handle their main product, and roads to drive their toys on. Latest news in LG Magazine out today - councils to band together for joint R&D and interchange. Wow! zzzzz to small minds, but nevertheless pivotal

@ papamoaner

Posted on 15-08-2017 11:10 | By Captain Sensible

If I went round asking strangers if they would like $1000 from the council, and free icecream for a year, I reckon most would take it. Question is...who pays for it?

Great support?

Posted on 15-08-2017 11:01 | By MISS ADVENTURE

This is the same kind of response one would expect from one on the payroll, the otehr blogg trails make the general response of "public" clear. The vast majority dont want it but if must then only if ratepayers dont have to pay a penny. That I an certainly comfortable with.

The gift that keeps giving

Posted on 15-08-2017 08:44 | By maildrop

If that’s true, 1. It’s a bit desperate 2. Very odd. The notion of asking children, with no understanding of costs, rates or any of the wider issues, if they would like to see some 3D printers in action. Did you offer them some lollies as well? Maybe a trip to see your puppy?

Just talking to people out and about is very interesting

Posted on 14-08-2017 22:09 | By Papamoaner

Half expecting a negative response and getting mostly positive responses, especially from young people, is very encouraging - Try it! The first approach feels a bit awkward, but after that it gets easy. "Excuse me, could I ask you what you think about an interactive museum for Tauranga?" YOU WILL BE SURPRISED - TRY IT. Some people ask what interactive means. Most are positive, especially teenagers. Kids are right into 3D printing now, some for art, but to me it’s not really art - it’s computers! But sometimes we have to keep our mouth shut. At least they have an interest, so PRAISE IT. Hell, we were doing 3D printing in the 60’s. We called it Hot Metal Spray then. Today it’s called Additive Engineering. 3D printing is the same thing in Drag.

Just maybe....

Posted on 14-08-2017 20:42 | By waiknot

R Bell maybe Gail gets it but just has a different vision?

Time to tag?

Posted on 14-08-2017 17:39 | By maildrop

Welcome back "Morepork". Not seen you in a while! "Papamoaner" has been very busy though. I’m liking the dual posting back to back. That might throw a few. ;-)

@Colleen Spiro

Posted on 14-08-2017 12:35 | By Papamoaner

I am ambivalent on that Colleen, but I am inclined to disagree on the basis that we elect council to make decisions like that, with referenda one of several measurement tools. Various referenda can actually be politically dangerous by setting precedent which I guess is why central governments tend to avoid them. We humans are strange animals because we seem apathetically inclined not to attend election campaign meetings etc., then later become dissatisfied with the result and demand referenda.

I agree with socantor01

Posted on 14-08-2017 12:27 | By R. Bell

A visionary city needs visionary leaders. Sadly Gail McIntosh just doesn’t get it. Preferred leisure is subjective and overlapping. There is nothing presumptuous about it. Mr Anderson was consulted over a museum, that is what he based his remarks on. Referendum are blunt instruments and can deliver injustice, one canton in Switzerland denied the vote to women until the 1980s by very small margins. Make the museum happen, now is the time. Robin Bell.

It's simple really...

Posted on 14-08-2017 12:25 | By morepork

... a binding referendum will settle it. If it is rejected, maybe another look at it in 10 years. It is pretty normal for most of us to think that the majority agree with our own opinion on something. Good arguments can be made both for and against a museum in Tauranga. Instead of arguing and posturing in support of a position, just put it to the vote.


Posted on 14-08-2017 11:54 | By Colleen Spiro

A BINDING referendum please

Maybe the Council doesn't want a Museum

Posted on 14-08-2017 09:58 | By tish

because then people might ask where all the rest of the stuff went that isn’t in the lock ups, you know the stuff that went in the skip/was given away, stuff that families donated or loaned to the Museum that just disappeared, physically and off the Council’s books.

Good range of comments coming in.

Posted on 14-08-2017 09:09 | By Papamoaner

Angels wants a vote but already knows the outcome. But I do support a citizen’s referendum.Maildrop is correct about the TePapa shakehouse. It’s pathetic, but the idea is really good. It demonstrates a small S-wave, (horizontal) but features no P-wave, (vertical). so we need a volunteer to add the appropriate controls and rams plus a display screen and audio to explain what’s happening. This is what modern interactive Museums should do, - forever changing and improving so the displays and demos are always fresh. I see New Plymouth has 5 museums, one is a science and technology museum. Reflects community vision I guess. To Neil Anderson - your hard work is appreciated, and the positive response you are experiencing from the community is testament to it. Don’t let yourself get discouraged by chamelion councillors. They are bendable!

@ dumbkof 2

Posted on 14-08-2017 08:53 | By Captain Sensible

Totally agree. I know of not one person who thinks it’s a good idea. TCC are so out of touch with reality, someone should make a TV show about it.


Posted on 14-08-2017 08:34 | By maildrop

The Art Gallery is a dead duck. I went to that Banksy thing - free entry! And I’m glad, because as I’ve said, 5% OK, 95% rubbish. People keep comparing to Te Papa - may as well compare to the Louvre in Paris. It doesn’t mean it works here. Most cruise shippers to Tauranga are straight on a bus to Rotorua or Hobiton. That’s what they came to NZ for, not to wander round a boring museum, "interactive" or not.

No museum

Posted on 14-08-2017 07:32 | By Angels

Let’s have a vote and finally stop all this craziness.The majority do not want a museum.

here we go again

Posted on 13-08-2017 21:12 | By old trucker

For golly gosh its only a car, Wakatane has a new shed being built, take all the rubbish over there and save us money Mr bollocks,just forget about Cliff road, by the way where is this collection stored, OR IS IT A SECRET,do you mean to say you have someone looking after stuff, looks like its all wrapped up ,and wearing white gloves ,(IT)must be delicate,did i read some where that it cost, something like $600thousand a year to store, is there a conflict of interest here with the storage fees, (just wondering,surely the public could go and have a look in the shed (STORAGE) and see what they think, me tinks it would be a waste of money, imagine how much this rubbish has cost us too store over the yrs, ($millions) and never get it back, but they still HARP ON about a new SHED,anywayeveryone,SunliveWONTHEBESTNEWSINNZ

Personally ....

Posted on 13-08-2017 20:26 | By groutby

...I reckon the whole issue has been clouded by parameters in which (consultant/accountant) Mr Anderson had to work with. We do not know who requested and paid for this report, I presume the TCC to achieve the answer they wanted. The likely scope of the questions/ "do you think a Museum would be a good thing in Tauranga"...or: do you think there would be sufficient interest to have a Museum at XX site, then yes, of course the answer will be overwhelming for. I thought we had got past that and now at least moving toward the "funding" of such.. seems not..we are back at the table again asking the same pre-emptive questions!. TCC without doubt want this..I think the term is "by hook or by crook", well, it may be by "crook". We (ratepayers) need facts and ACTUAL costings and followed by a BINDING it!

More info please

Posted on 13-08-2017 18:19 | By waiknot

How was this study carried out, terms of reference, selection process for participants please.


Posted on 13-08-2017 17:37 | By Capt_Kaveman

rather see a museum than that dead duck art gallery

Wow, a car

Posted on 13-08-2017 17:22 | By maildrop

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz. I’ve been to a few "interactive" museums. Like traditional ones it’s 5% worth looking at, 95% boring rubbish. Children under 5 might find the interactive stuff captivating. I mean, that earthquake room at Te Papa. Do me a favour, it’s rubbish. I know how an earthquake works. Zzzzzzzzzz

Museum for Tauranga

Posted on 13-08-2017 17:20 | By socantor01

Gail McIntosh just has to go. We can’t afford to pay non-visionary councillors. Tauranga Art Gallery has proved itself as a place to go to, time and time again, with children being bused in several times a week. Many more need to have the same ability to visit a museum. She has obviously never been to Te Papa which is extremely popular amongst all types of people, especially cruise ship visitors. Take your blinkers off, Gail and give the city a chance to really blossom!

Flowery claptrap

Posted on 13-08-2017 16:47 | By peecee09

The Oxford dictionary defines a museum as " a building in which objects of historical, scientific, or cultural interest are exhibited. So let’s cut out the flowery yuppie language that is being used like " sense of belonging " and " better connect". Oh please. Just build it.

And so the BS piles higher and deeper...

Posted on 13-08-2017 16:42 | By mutley

How many struggling museums do we need? Western Bay have just had to bail out the Katikati effort. Who will be paying for this one when the grandiose and overblown predictions simply fail to eventuate? Of course this guy Anderson will be wildly enthusiastic about museums - he doesn’t call himself a Not-Museum Consultant does he. I will not be visiting the museum as a preferred centre for leisure and I am seriously angry about the minority forcing this crap on the rest of us.


Posted on 13-08-2017 16:32 | By dumbkof2

who are all these people that are being consulted. i have never been asked or consulted yet. neither have i seen a petition. until such time as i see a petition for overwhelming support then i shall treat it all as very very suspect. everyone i have spoken to have said no

Sounds empirical

Posted on 13-08-2017 16:22 | By Papamoaner

A detailed Sunlive publication of Neil’s research and findings would help. TCC also need to go more public on costs so the naysayers arguments can be neutralised. Even though there appears on the face of it to be a majority push for the museum, whilst encouraging, we should not depend on that alone, and keep turning as many people around as possible. Some of those naysayers are bound to become supporters once presented with cost validity and authenticity. How is the $300k business case coming along TCC? When can we expect something published on that? Working behind closed doors doesn’t help anybody.

Not sure

Posted on 13-08-2017 16:09 | By R1Squid

If I read this correctly. In my experience, a Museum is a STATIC display. Seen it once, no need to see it again. Myself, I have no interest.Te Papa may be different, but Tauranga is not the Capitol of New Zealand.